PVP, Roleplay, Gaming, Friends and Memories - Redemption

[Kirel Redhand]

I love PVP. But I don't love it to exclusion of all else. If I did, pretty much any shooter would satisfy me, because there is nothing more pure and more competitive in nature than a good shooter. I also need to be able to grow my character, not only in skillsets, but in personality and how he interacts with the world around him. I need to be able to delve into a character, to put my psyche inside and tweak it some, producing an artificial and stylized version of me: One that feels real and one that I can relate to on some primal level.

As I look around and take stock of the names that are here, I realize that not many of you were with me during our heady SB days. Now - before you out of hand dismiss what I am about to say - realize this: Shadowbane, for all it's faults, was the truest form of Online Roleplay that I have yet to see. Even though the game was truly guild based, it allowed for individuals to become distinct entities - within their guilds. Chack the centaur, Cloudstorm the Aricoix, Chaos the Templar, Belnor the Dwarf... Cayth, Sanosuke, Ransom, Asir, Aeldred, Aloran, Xebec, Jaeto, Shanesse, Kadan, Jaydn, Oivey, Lacea: All of these people (and many - many more) made indellible impressions within the world in their own right and as part of a guild. Their personalities transcended the crappy game in a real RP environment and they became their characters: They truly played a role in the life and times of Redemption(SB).

In that vein, how many here remember - truly remember the 30 day long siege of Almecka? How about the creation of the Seraphim - those hardy warriors all, who refused to give up and thus earned us the respect of some true bastards, while defending Agamemenatards city?

For as crappy a game as SB was and is, it had true potential and I long for that type of game again. I want the thrill of pure and unhindered pvp. I long for the days where any stranger is a potential enemy. I don't want to look at somebody and say " Oh, He's Horde or He's alliance, or He's destruction.. etc, and know without a doubt that - that person will not, no: Cannot, kill me. I want that uncertanty. I want to have to depend on my guildmates for survival. I want you to feel like you are as close to me as a brother or sister. Blood Brothers!

I also want a game where we fight to own a city, something that is ours and ours alone. And if there are no available cities or keeps, I want to be able to simply take one through force of arms. I want a game where pvp in a fantasy realm is fun again.

There are many games on the horizon, but only a few offer the potential for true roleplay, true pvp and true satisfaction. And of those few, two I consider Vaporware ( Darkfall and Mortal Online). The only game that even promises this type of combination and is set to release this year is Age of Conan.

In my mind, this didn't start out as a "Lets all play AOC" type of blog, but there it is.

So let me leave you with this.


When the world turns you away, a friend will not say no
There is strength that we all have, its not the strenght we show
and in your darkest hour, in your darkest nights
Whatever life will do, I am here for you
Think of me, wherever you are, when it seems like your reaching the end
call on me, know in your heart, on one you can always depend
I am that friend

Though your far away, the stars above are the same
And when you feel alone, there's one who shares your pain
A true friend, has no price, there is none to pay
I remember you stood by me, I'm with you all the way
Think of me, wherever you are, when it seems like your reaching the end
call on me, know in your heart, on one you can always depend
I am that friend

[Kirel Redhand]

You should take into consideration that the average these days for WOW is 5 days /played (at least thats what various boards say)

[Alik]

Good news. While Wolfpack introduced me to the concept of flavor of the month builds (as literally they would nerf and buff different classes each month), the important thing to note is that it took like a week, two weeks to get yourself a FotM character if you wanted it.
Glad to hear AoC will be shaping up that way. If the endgame is made by the players rather than new dungeons designed each couple months, it should be decent.

[Kirel Redhand]

Rumor is - that the devs expect 5 days of /played to get to 80.

[PaleOne]

I know what you mean Alik.

I have been playing SB now for less than a month.
I have

A 72 Mage Warlock Ae powerleveler
A 72 Human High Defense Healer Channeler
A 55 Vampire scout
A 40 Shade Mage Assasin
a 46 Figher Warlock blademaster

If I was playing wow I might have one level 40...

Im hoping that AOC has the ability to skip 1-20 on your additional characters and start at 20.. 1-20 is basically a lore driven tutorial

[Alik]

One thing I have come to like about Shadowbane was the way that leveling was less of a grind, and more of an economic asset. If you were a strong guild you could level groups of people in the best spots with little fear of being attacked.
If Shadowbane was what happened when you level capped in WoW however, the game would be horrible, as who would have the time to create their summoner, scout, treb commander, templar, nuker, deathstar etc.
Unless the game puts less emphasis on the grind before you are at the peak of pvp prowess, the game will just be a wow clone, with all the leveling burnout associated.

[Zarrik]

At this point, I'd be happy with another MMO with solid PvE but without the ridiculous grind. WoW is pretty close to that now, but having a new world to explore would be nice. I'd love to see SB implemented properly, but I'm starting to think that PvP is such a limited focus of MMO companies, that settling for good PvE may be more attainable.

[Ransom]

I agree Duren, 2 months ago, AoC left me feeling like there was no way I'd be playing this game. Its come along though so I'm more optimistic. I try not to ever pass judgement on them till after they release. I remember DAoC, 1 week before launch, it was horrid. Then they launched and it was better, then they patched and it was better, and a week after launch it was like a totally different game from that beta 2 weeks before.

[Durendal]

Last time I mucked around with AoC it had really crappy implementation going on, but maybe it has changed in the last 2 months. I still have doubts about it changing enough in the next month before release to actually prove satisfactory.

Personally I wonder if the MMO scene isn't one that is destined to remain a desolate wasteland for years to come, and pining away for hardcore PvP might just be a waste of time and energy.

Call me jaded.

[Ransom]

Shadowbane as a game failed horribly. I'll admit that my negativity has a lot to do with the insane amount of time I devoted to the game, pre-release.

But if you take a way the shitty code, nearly everything else about it was done right. I know its hard to think of a computer game without the code, without the experience of playing it, but just looking at the game's design, they really had some successes that have yet to be surpassed in my opinion.

1. They did NOT strive for equality in the classes and races. Why? Because they didnt need to balance for PvE.
If you wanted to Choose to min/max yourself or your guild, you could. But each race and class had so many little things that overshadowed the importance of doing 10% more dps or having 200 more mana. You choose warlock, and levitate, or Aracoix and fly. Centaurs and you outran everyone. Etc. Wolfpack didnt worry about balancing for the possibility of an all Irekei guild and city. Each race and class was what it was.

2. City building was just cool. Building ownership. NPC ownership. Guards. Gates. All high on the cool factor. All high on the immersion factor.

3. Game of Thrones. Ability to change the map, dominate, or be destroyed. Again. Cool factor.

4. PvP was not pvp in the tactical sense of past games or existing games like WoW. Its comparing apples to oranges, but like I said, they didnt worry about balance, and so this wasnt viewed as a failure. Its probably more fair to say there was GvG in SB rather than PvP. I wouldnt trade in the depth and complexity of the new WoW pvp in the arenas, however, the GvG of SB wasnt a stand alone feature like the WoW arenas are. GvG in SB also added to the immersion, to the RP, to the Game of Thrones. WoW pvp is now a standalone game as evident by the new server configuration. SB GvG was 100% woven through all aspects of the game.

5. Finally the Lore, the RP, the story. Wolfpack was smart in that they hired a fiction writer very early in the development and all he did was write and craft the universe. I know that people have fond memories of our RP in SB. I am doubtful that we will ever see that again what with the advent of Vent type voice com's. I am also doubtful because we as gamers didnt just choose to push RP. All the elements above lent themselves to the RP. The RP, City Building, Game of Thrones, and GvG all were equally woven through the game design.

To summarize my thoughts on SB. WP and Mostly I think Ubisoft, failed to implement the design. They had a plan. A good plan. And couldnt execute. Happens all the time. But that doesnt mean that the concept was flawed. Far from it I think.


And now we have Conan coming.

Its got the Lore and it looks like they are doing it justice.

We'll see whether it has the cool factor for City building and ownership. Supposedly it does.

Its supposedly got the Game of Thrones element with only limited space for cities in the pvp zones which all guilds will fight for.

They will however end up with WoW like race/class equality I think. But that will allow for solid PvE and like Kirel says, we need to be able to scratch that itch when we feel it.

And now to PvP. Probably has the most potential of any game to have both the tactical PvP of WoW with the potential for SB GvG action.

Will they execute? Don't know. But I'm hopeful AoC will take us back to our roots a bit and be a good home.

[Kirel Redhand]

I didn't forget Scythe - I just didn't mention him.

As to - do I see AOC having the same potential that SB had? Difficult question but one which I will tackle.

Yes and No.

No: You are correct in saying that it doesn't have the same potential because the game isn't designed with the same openness in mind. Also, levels play a much bigger factor in AOC than they did in SB (although to be fair, a R3 never had a chance against an R4 in sb), much like pretty much every game - EVER.

Yes - and this is where I see the true potential. This guild is comprised of people who like their PVE, lots of quests, lots of story elements, lots of places to explore. And we "say" we like good hardcore PVP. I thought that Pirates would be the answer to our growing apathy in WOW, much like I thought EVE would be the answer, but in both cases, I forgot one very important thing: We like these things, but in a Fantasy environment. We like swords and magic. Ships - cool as they are, are simply distractions and don't pull us in as deep as a good "blood spurting, kill them all frenzy where the victor can survey the battle and see the enemies bodies laying at their feet" moment. It's that visceral thrill that Pirates and EVE failed to provide.

So I look at the games coming out and I won't break any NDA here - but I've got contacts. And I've seen with my own eyes the various MMO's. I've seen what they offer. I've played every major MMO currently on the market and I know what they offer. AOC is the next step.


Pale, I too prefer Lore based pvp (I think that's what you meant) to Faction based PVP, because faction based PVP is always hardcoded whereas Lore base PVP is not. And one thing that I think you fail to see about AOC is that it's PVP, well it's PVP in it's purest form. To state this another way; pvp is the essense of the lore. Howards books tell us many things, but one thing that comes through very clear is that the world is a damn brutal place and only the strong survive.

Are you strong enough?